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 Post subject: Second account
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:04 pm 

Joined: Nov 6, 2009
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Someone asked me today if it was legal to have a second account, and what are the rules and costs or benefits of doing so.

I thought I'd share some thoughts in the form of a sort of guide to second accounts in this forum:

First, you must get permission from game admins in advance to open a second account. If you don't, you could have both accounts banned for violating game rules.

Second, both accounts have to show the relationship with each other clearly in the page under "OFFICE" , then "OTHER FUNCTIONS", then "REGISTER A RELATIONSHIP". Make it clear what the relationship is (same player as XXX). Don't try to hide the relationship and don't open a second account without permission, as this is a violation of game rules. But, if you are honest and open and disclose relationships, you are allowed to have two accounts.

Third, and this is a very important point that has significant costs associated with it, you must have GOLD account status (costs 20 tickets per month) on both of your accounts if you have a second account. In part, this discourages people from just starting up lots of accounts without viewing it as having any cost to do so, and anyone who needs a second account should have already upgraded their first account to gold anyway long ago. Whatever justification you care to use, however, it is definitely a firm rule that any two accounts on the same internet connection, even if not the same person, must both be gold accounts.

This leads to the question, is it worth the cost?

If you have 80 factories on your second account of 10k sq ft size each, those factories will make a profit of about 1.8 million per day each using APCE or my standard product prices for outputs sold from those small factories. The total profit per month would be 1.8 million per day x 30 days x 80 factories which equals 4.32 billion profit per month from this second account alone. If you assume that the first account already has upgraded to gold, then the incremental cost of having another 20 tickets sent to pay for gold on this second account is 20 x 30 million per ticket (current ticket market price) or 600 million bucks.

Thus, the incremental profit from having a second account with 80 x 10k factories is 4320 million minus 600 million, or 3720 million net extra profit per month.

The cost of building those 80 factories, including building supplies, is about 25 million each, so 80 x 25 million = 2 billion bucks. Even adding the cost of gold while building during the 17 days when the second account is not making any income, you have an extra cost of only a bit over 300 million for a half month of gold upgrade. Therefore, your profit even during the first month while building the factories would be almost enough during the month to cover the cost of building the factories and paying for the gold upgrade, and each month after month one, you would have significant positive cash flow.

Cost for farms is lower but profit from farms is also lower, so payoff for farms in a second account is not as good as it is with factories. However, farms have low inventory costs for inputs and are easy to run, so some players do like having farms in a second account.

With inventory to run factories, and the cost of tickets to upgrade to gold for both accounts, you probably need a total investment of at least 4 billion to get started quickly with a second account, but the profit after the first month will provide approximately 100% monthly return on your startup investment costs.


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 Post subject: Re: Second account
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:06 pm 

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User avatarNaush INC
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Or you could lie and say its your cousins account!!!!
That way you only go gold if you want to trade.
:devil: :devil: :devil: :pbb: :devil: :pbb: :devil: :pbb: :devil: :pbb: :devil: :devil: :grin:

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 Post subject: Re: Second account
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:19 pm 

Joined: Nov 6, 2009
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itstheman wrote:
Or you could lie and say its your cousins account!!!!
That way you only go gold if you want to trade.
:devil: :devil: :devil: :pbb: :devil: :pbb: :devil: :pbb: :devil: :pbb: :devil: :devil: :grin:


Yes, you could do that, but it would not be honest. I do not recommend being dishonest, either in real life or in a game. I believe it is better to be honest and to say you have two accounts than to lie and try to get away with something in order to save a few bucks on the cost of a few tickets.

Perhaps you could ask yourself, how much is my personal honesty and integrity worth to me? And, would God approve if I cheat and lie to others?


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 Post subject: Re: Second account
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:56 pm 

Joined: Jan 22, 2012
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Abalesk Chamber of Commerce
When i open my account and my friend send me his factory to produce product for him ,first thing i did that i ask for permission from system and explain everything clearly to them and they also agree but if i would hide from them maybe they would banned me . so truth won !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Second account
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:32 pm 

Joined: Feb 27, 2011
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I'm glad you posted this explanation about second accounts in a nice condensed form Professor. It is very clear and easily understood.

When I first learned about how second accounts were allowed with restrictions by the administration of Simunomics about 6 months ago, it upset me a bit. I had worked hard to get to about level 10 playing without tickets, no unusual help from anyone or, of course, no other accounts except this same one I have now. One of the first rules of online games and gamers is no "multis". Gamers hate this easy way of advantage perhaps more than the makers and operators of online games. Two accounts in Simunomics was explained well enough and with the restrictions, I understood how and why it was allowed, I never made any comments, and I'm fine with this.

When "things hit the fan", so to speak, a few months ago I didn't get involved. I just couldn't stand the way everything seemed to degenerate into an ugly forum battle. I had always found this Simunomics forum to be an amazingly civil and intelligent place to be. It made me sad because this forum is another reason I like this game.

I hope the forum never goes thru that same battle again, because if it starts to, I think this explanation by Professor should be brought back to attention. Thanks,

Jimmi

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 Post subject: Re: Second account
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:16 pm 

Joined: Dec 12, 2008
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User avatarVaculus
The devs will allow a 2nd account, as long as the 2 accounts do not interact with each other.


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 Post subject: Re: Second account
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:57 pm 

Joined: Oct 29, 2008
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Vaculus wrote:
The devs will allow a 2nd account, as long as the 2 accounts do not interact with each other.

yes, but we can see that's not what is happening. second and even third accounts are opened to provide business opportunities for the first one. and it's all legal and approved by devs as long as you request permission and state you will do fair business between accounts. but the huge leverage you have from a second account I see as cheating, even if it's only used as a storage for buildings opportunistically snatched from auctions or whatever.

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 Post subject: Re: Second account
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:01 pm 
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m3tatron wrote:
but the huge leverage you have from a second account I see as cheating, even if it's only used as a storage for buildings opportunistically snatched from auctions or whatever.

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Second account
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:35 am 

Joined: Nov 6, 2009
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It would be "cheating" if it were done without permission or if it were not open to everyone simply for asking.

However, it is not cheating when anyone is welcome to take advantage of this LEGAL GAME FEATURE. Calling this cheating is a bit like calling use of tickets cheating (a view that some players would agree with actually) or the use of speed expansions cheating (some players strongly dislike having this option available to give some players an advantage in finishing buildings faster) or non-payment of taxes under the old rules cheating (although it was technically allowed, it did give an unfair advantage to some players who were able to avoid large expenses of taxes by the way that they managed their accounts).

I have used tickets. I have used speed expansions. I have avoided paying for taxes whenever it was possible to do so. And, I have a second account.

I do not personally consider any of these to be cheating, as all were done within the rules of the game, with permission from the game admins for the second account being given prior to opening the account.

I have also leverage many relationships in the game and have gotten other players to build for me (including Habars and Sunshine, both building for hire for me at one point in the game for each of them, although I have build more for them over time than they have built for me). I have borrowed money from other many players (secured by tickets) at different times in the game, and have loaned money to other players from time to time (with permission from developers when done on a public basis via the forums). I have many players who sell factory products to me, and I sell factory products to many others in the game. These relationships have provided me with very large benefits over time in many different contexts, but I have also provided benefits back, so there was no abuse of game rules or cheating. However, I have not become successful in the game by playing alone, without help. I did have help.


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 Post subject: Re: Second account
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:15 am 

Joined: Oct 29, 2008
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yes, multi accounting IS LEGAL in this game, as I also specified. on the other hand I have never seen another game that allows this. and I am old enough in the game to know it never was an intended feature but rather it started as an exception from the rule and only to give the players the option to try out other business models than the main account. so no selling and buying between accounts or other collaboration. what I dont understand or agree with is how it got to the point when you can basically open an account (or several) for mass producing and then selling to the main account full of stores. how is that fair? well it isnt and I call it cheating

and if it is open for everyone that asks, why do we have to ask in the first place?

I want to ask the devs how long are they going to allow this multi accounting because they clearly abandoned policing it. or if they are really happy with how it works they should just remove the building slot limit so everybody be able to profit from it without the weird hassle of administering several accounts.

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 Post subject: Re: Second account
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:35 am 

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Actually, I play several games where more than one account is allowed, but in each game where it is allowed, there is a requirement that all accounts be premium accounts. That makes the cost of having a second account non-trival, as it is in this game.


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 Post subject: Re: Second account
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:29 pm 
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Guys do we need to get into this again? The subject comes up every two months. It doesn't help any.

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 Post subject: Re: Second account
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:46 pm 

Joined: Nov 6, 2009
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Yes, it does over and over. That is why I thought it might be good to make a clear statement about what is or is not allowed, as many players do not understand why some people can have second accounts and others say it is cheating. At least here, we can have a discussion about what is or is not allowed.


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 Post subject: Re: Second account
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:42 pm 

Joined: Dec 12, 2008
Posts: 3558
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User avatarVaculus
m3tatron wrote:
Vaculus wrote:
The devs will allow a 2nd account, as long as the 2 accounts do not interact with each other.

yes, but we can see that's not what is happening. second and even third accounts are opened to provide business opportunities for the first one. and it's all legal and approved by devs as long as you request permission and state you will do fair business between accounts. but the huge leverage you have from a second account I see as cheating, even if it's only used as a storage for buildings opportunistically snatched from auctions or whatever.

That's a major problem and the devs need to clarify some things about the exact use of multiple accounts in this game.

Professor wrote:
Actually, I play several games where more than one account is allowed, but in each game where it is allowed, there is a requirement that all accounts be premium accounts. That makes the cost of having a second account non-trival, as it is in this game.

Facebook games do not count.


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 Post subject: Re: Second account
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:06 pm 

Joined: Nov 6, 2009
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I was not thinking of facebook games. I was thinking of other strategy games I have played in the past. More war like than business like games, and online of course, but not facebook.


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