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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 1:56 pm 

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Someone asked me to help them with a math problem to come up with a simple formula to calculate the total work hours required for a specific level of R&D.

From the help encyclopedia, the work hours for each level are 24*(L^2 - L +0.1). This is easy to find, but summing up all these calculations for every level can be annoying.

So, math comes to the aid here. This becomes the summation of the above formula for L=0 to X, where X is the desired level of R&D for which work hours are requested.

Simplifying this equasion results in the following formula for R&D work hours needed in total for any level of R&D = 8*(L+1)*(L^2-L+0.3) where L is the level of R&D.

If you know your cost per work hour to do R&D, including value of the land slot being used by the R&D center, then the cost to reach that level will be equal to

formula for R&D cost = 8*(L+1)*(cost/workhour)*(L^2-L+0.3) where L = target level of R&D for which cost or price is needed


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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 10:41 pm 

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Nice work professor. These formulas match my spreadsheet prices.

Only cost this formula doesn't show is the cost of converting buildings (Contract research), i personally used 25million per 10k.

I would highly suggest to anyone who doesn't use spreadsheets to use this formula when looking at the value of R&D.

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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 4:43 pm 

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A simple way to include cost of conversion is to include that cost in the cost of work hours used. So, don't make it only marginal work hour cost, but include value of land slots used and an estimate of cost of R&D center conversions over the life of the research project. That way, you can more easily value existing R&D using a consistent cost basis.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:01 am 

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Someone asked me to explain this formula in more detail today, because they did not understand how it could be used or would apply. I decided to copy my reply to them here in case it is useful to others in the future.

8*(L+1)*(L^2-L+0.3), where L = level

L = Level (so for example, research at level 36 means L = 36)
L+1 = level plus one, so if L is 36, L+1 is 37
L^2 = level squared, so if L = 36, L^2 = 36^2 = 1296
L^2-L+0.3 = level squared minus level plus 0.3, so if L=36, this is 1296-36+0.3 = 1260.3

So, work hours to get to level 36 R&D = 8 x 37 x 1260.3 = 373,049

This is the number of hours of employee work in any R&D center that it takes to get to level 36 R&D for any product.

then, you take WH x price/WH to get price for selling R&D, or 373,049 x 3200 = 1,193,756,160

Now, you can sell research at any price you want, on the auction or otherwise. There is no magic about the 3200 per wh number, but I use that number because it is about the cost per work hour that it takes to get R&D done in an R&D center of about 100k sq ft in size, under the assumption that the R&D center of that size should be earning 25 million per day in income for doing that research work.

This also happens to be the same price that outside contract research providers are charging for doing contract R&D for me. Since I am paying that price to buy research, I am also charging that same price to sell research.

Please note, due to the squared factor in research work required to reach high levels of research, the cost of research goes up to very big numbers of cost at high levels of R&D, and therefore, it is only possible to justify high levels of R&D if you have MANY LARGE FACTORIES working on the same product to leverage that research. For example, the level 120 research on tools that Global Production House has, which was done for him by Hazzaah as contract R&D, cost him more than 44 billion bucks to buy (assuming 3200 per work hour). If he had wanted level 70 research, the cost would have only been about 8.8 billion, and if he wanted level 36 research, the cost would be only 1.2 billion.

It is very easy for even a small company to get a fast payoff from low levels of R&D, but it takes a large company with big factories all making the same product to make it worth investing in high level research.

As for a related question which could be asked about WHY does research work like this and why is the formula like this, the best answer is BECAUSE IT IS. The developers set it up like this, so that research increases more or less as the square of the research level, and so cost goes up rapidly as the level of research increases. At some point, it is clearly no longer worth the cost to push R&D up by a few more levels, since the difference in cost from level 1 to level 30 tiny compared with the cost of going from level 60 to level 90 for the same research.

Final question you might ask, what level of research is best? I don't know. My feeling is R&D does pay off, and higher research is probably more valuable than most players realize in the game, but I don't know where the optimal level of research is. For many players of large size, my sense is that research should probably be in the range of 40 to 60 or so for most products, but I might be over estimating the value of research at the upper end of that range. If you are getting research done at higher than level 70, you better have a lot of big factories making that one product.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:26 pm 

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Abalesk Chamber of Commerce
This guide is very usefull . I think so company like my only manufacturing cell phone , high research will be usefull :P .

Thanks for explanation once again. :P

:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:13 pm 

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Thanks for the guide i will use this method of calculating a lot now :smile:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:44 pm 

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User avatarHazzian Products Unlimited
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Great guide RV, personally I feel that determining the level of research that is correct for a given company or produce is mostly dependant on what percentage of the research that goes towards the final product. Take for instance electric car research compared to that of extraction tools, extraction tools research incorporates 33% of itself into any raw material and then those Raw materials go into a final product or maybe even another intermediate product,... My point being that the percentage is sometimes fairly small, where as with electric car research 50% is going directly into the final product for an essentially cheaper price. (hint for manufacturers, it is sometimes more effective to invest in research for your inputs if you manufacture those as well)

I would love to see researches crossing the 150-200range by the end of this year, currently research is profitable up to 300ish with very very large factories, the problem is a having large research centers to maintain this level along with the large factories, once licensing is released this problem will be solved.

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Helping you keep your products the highest QA possible!
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Make HPU your R&D partner today!
http://forums.simunomics.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=6929 <---- Always up to date research listing.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:20 am 

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I'm not certain that level 300 research would be worth the cost, but it is pretty clear that with large factories, level 70 to level 80 research can easily be justified as being worth having.

It also is clear that it takes a lot more research centers to reach a high level of research than it does to just sustain the research once it is there. Thus, hiring someone like Hazzaah or someone else providing the same contract R&D services as he offers makes a lot of sense. While you still need to have research centers to maintain the R&D once it has reached your target level, you can get a fast boost by hiring someone else who specializes in doing research to quickly get up to a level of research where your factories can make a lot higher profits per day using the higher level R&D almost immediately, instead of waiting more than a year to gradually push up slowly towards a steady-state final research level that can be sustained by your research centers.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:34 am 

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The one thing that I see as being missing from the costs of doing research is the cost of switching research centers to start on a project. This cost is not big when compared to the cost of level 60 or higher research, but it can be a very large percentage of total cost for lower level research. In fact, at 3200 per work hour, without any fee for switching costs to change R&D center focus, it probably is not worth taking up projects of level 30 or lower unless several players are ordering the same research and the projects can be combined to have one switching cost for more than one research contract.

I'm willing to do level 30 or level 35 research, but the cost of doing so will be slightly higher than would be shown by 3200 per work hour alone using this formula, as I need to cover the cost of setup.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:33 pm 

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trader imu wrote:
The one thing that I see as being missing from the costs of doing research is the cost of switching research centers to start on a project. This cost is not big when compared to the cost of level 60 or higher research, but it can be a very large percentage of total cost for lower level research. In fact, at 3200 per work hour, without any fee for switching costs to change R&D center focus, it probably is not worth taking up projects of level 30 or lower unless several players are ordering the same research and the projects can be combined to have one switching cost for more than one research contract.

I'm willing to do level 30 or level 35 research, but the cost of doing so will be slightly higher than would be shown by 3200 per work hour alone using this formula, as I need to cover the cost of setup.


was already discussed.

Hazzaah wrote:
Nice work professor. These formulas match my spreadsheet prices.

Only cost this formula doesn't show is the cost of converting buildings (Contract research), i personally used 25million per 10k.

I would highly suggest to anyone who doesn't use spreadsheets to use this formula when looking at the value of R&D.
Professor wrote:
A simple way to include cost of conversion is to include that cost in the cost of work hours used. So, don't make it only marginal work hour cost, but include value of land slots used and an estimate of cost of R&D center conversions over the life of the research project. That way, you can more easily value existing R&D using a consistent cost basis.


this works well.

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Hazzian Products Unlimited
Helping you keep your products the highest QA possible!
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Make HPU your R&D partner today!
http://forums.simunomics.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=6929 <---- Always up to date research listing.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:40 am 

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This has been a very useful guide for me to understand how to better predict research work hours and costs to complete research projects.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:19 am 

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what is price of upkeep for 56 rd?lol

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:04 am 

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the cost of level 56 to level 57 research, divided by 7 days, would be about 40 million per day cost to stay at the same level, assuming 3600 per work hour cost. If you are doing the research in your own research centers, your cost should be less than that, because the 3600 per work hour figure is based on the price being charged now by a company who is doing research for hire for profit. Cost should, therefore, be lower than that or the company producing research for hire would have no profits, which seems unlikely.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:54 am 

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User avatarVaculus
I made an online calculator about research levels. You will find it at http://simuguides.cwahi.net/.


Last edited by Vaculus on Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:42 am 

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User avatarShadow Raven Industries
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Vaculus wrote:
I made an online calculator about research levels. You will find it at http://simuguides.cwahi.net/ under the tab "Research level calculator".


Nice work on the calculator that is a clean and user friendly interface.

It should be noted however that because research mix and city economic adjustment are not factored in that the value for number of days needed to reach target is an extrapolation and will not be accurate for a real world situation.


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