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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:52 pm 

Joined: Mar 25, 2013
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User avatarHatuey Enterprise
 
I have you devs a topic for discussion and looking for feedback. I thought of making something like this myself but why not start with a game already made and in working order?

How about we make simunomics a game with a cryptocurrency. Lets make a cryptocurrency that runs within the game. This gives tangible value to the game, and the currency. Creating the currendcy in itself is not hard and you could even have the game live on the blockchain to a certain extent giving it a life of its own. This will be a novel concept and no one has anything like this now.

I'd very much enjoy taking a role in this project if you see the novelty and uniqueness it would offer. (FYI, this would substitute tickets on the long run and invite new gamers who come by the currency and wish to spend it on something. Currency gaming might net you as much as 10 times more than tickets. And the game becomes more real life than fiction. Comments please.

Note: please keep in mind not all cryptocurrencies earn value overnight and while this might not be the next bitcoin, it might be on par with one of the smaller coins. Think players could earn their money for the game mining the coin and transferring it to the game to use, or selling it to other players who want it (this substitutes tickets since people are paying dollars for cryptocurrency) and the admins would be cashing in as people spend in the game, then they sell it back to players on demand). Lower fees o no fees, taxes, and most of all, a total decentralized control over the economy as the people create it and keep it alive and not just one person.

The best part is that this can be scaled up ingame and outside to give value to the coin and form a bigger community for both the coin and the game. Hope you can see the value I see. It is very early in the adoption of this technology for browser games and no other economy game has adopted it yet. This is the chance to make simunomics stand out and create a solid community centered around finance and not just to talk about a game. I believe this is what the devs intended when simu was created.

_________________
My prices: http://goo.gl/BGJjSJ
My 2 year gameplay achievements:
1- I was first to break the $10 through $180 trillion retained earning milestones.
2- I was first to break the 100m ft2 manufacturing milestone in 1 account, and now 150m ft2.
3- I founded The Network that dominated and stayed top TG in the game for 1 whole year. - and still is!
4- I was first to profit 55 trillion in 1 week from just 1 product.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:15 pm 

Joined: Mar 25, 2013
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User avatarHatuey Enterprise
 
To further expand on the concept.

Each player account would be a wallet with the ability to spend, earn and store coins. Sending to a third party could be enabled or disabled within player accounts (disabled preferrably) and a marketplace could be created to sell your coins to other players with a fee. This fee is to keep the marketplace free of spam transactions and to create a revenue for the game, devs, and cover associated costs.

An individual could mine for coins using a video card just like any other coin out there, giving the currency life since it depends on these miners to verify transactions and keep the blockchain alive. Individuals solely interested in mining and not playing could sell their mined coins on the marketplace for a fee as well. Devs (system) can sell coins as well, but with a scalable price based on supply and demand. System coins will always be slightly more expensive than the average coin but should hold a considerable inventory of coins and have a limit per transaction based on average sales.

Example, if the average sale is for 10 coins on the market for $0.10 a coin, the system could have 20 for sale at $0.13 a coin. Once those get bought, it will raise the average price since no player is apparently undercutting the system and now coins are going to be available from the system again but this time it will be 21 coins for $0.14 and the price keeps scaling with sales and purchase demand. a soft cap on price and volume from system can be set to avoid spam and manipulation.

_________________
My prices: http://goo.gl/BGJjSJ
My 2 year gameplay achievements:
1- I was first to break the $10 through $180 trillion retained earning milestones.
2- I was first to break the 100m ft2 manufacturing milestone in 1 account, and now 150m ft2.
3- I founded The Network that dominated and stayed top TG in the game for 1 whole year. - and still is!
4- I was first to profit 55 trillion in 1 week from just 1 product.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:22 am 

Joined: Mar 13, 2011
Posts: 202
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User avatarsaltwater
 
This to me sounds like a freaking great idea!!!!!! I would love to see something like this happen! I wonder if this could work. I also wonder what the devs would think about this.

I myself would personally invest in this!!!!

If I'm not mistaken, they have a game out there now where it's bases on a concept like this.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:32 pm 
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Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Posts: 2032
Location: Climbing up the shoulders of giants
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User avatarAllmart
System Company
Well it's a cool idea but I see two problems.

The first is that in order for a cryptocurrency to have real, trustworthy value it has to be hands-off. As soon as it enters into a game with it's own rules that's currency manipulation. You say decentralized, but is it? The game isn't, which means the value isn't. Any change to the game would change the value of what is now a real currency. You'd have to make the code open source and community controlled. (Which is still not the same as protected, since majority manipulation is still manipulation). And the game database would also have to be replicated and verified via blockchain the way the currency itself is. Simply put it would run veeeerrrry slowly.

The second problem is potential legal risk. Cryptocurrency already has a shaky relationship with a lot of politicians. That's under the best and simplest of conditions. In the context of a game where admins have any sort of advantage - even a fully disclosed one as described above - it's an invitation for gambling laws. We're very explicit that βucks hold no resale value for exactly this reason.

The simpler way to do this would be to just use an existing cryptocoin and build a game to use it. If people want to spend on a game that comes with it's own rules that's their choice as if they spent any currency on any game. The legal remains though and I would still be wary for that reason.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:59 pm 

Joined: Mar 25, 2013
Posts: 1006
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User avatarHatuey Enterprise
 
Amarsir wrote:
The simpler way to do this would be to just use an existing cryptocoin and build a game to use it. If people want to spend on a game that comes with it's own rules that's their choice as if they spent any currency on any game. The legal remains though and I would still be wary for that reason.


why not give this idea a deeper spin then??

_________________
My prices: http://goo.gl/BGJjSJ
My 2 year gameplay achievements:
1- I was first to break the $10 through $180 trillion retained earning milestones.
2- I was first to break the 100m ft2 manufacturing milestone in 1 account, and now 150m ft2.
3- I founded The Network that dominated and stayed top TG in the game for 1 whole year. - and still is!
4- I was first to profit 55 trillion in 1 week from just 1 product.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:00 am 
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Location: Climbing up the shoulders of giants
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User avatarAllmart
System Company
Ok let's be critical. What you want is like Online Poker, where everyone pays to sit down at a game. Except instead of building a hand of cards you build virtual stores where you try to predict the demand of virtual people for a virtual product.

It really has nothing to do with cryptocurrency except that everything seems cooler and more cryptic (so to speak). The house (us) would take it's edge on entrance and exit and the rest of the system is zero-sum. You could do that with dollars or euros as well as dogecoins. External fluctuation is irrelevant. If virtual coins go up against the dollar that has no bearing on how many coins the virtual human has to spend on fruit.

So really what you have is a game that's pay to play and mostly closed-system. I could do that and it would be pretty easy. In fact it solves most balance and cheating problems since there's no free accounts and no free money. Which in turn comes with the massive drawback of no free accounts and no free money. And let's not leave out the part I'm sure appeals to you: you can withdraw the in-game profits to the real world, in return for facing gambling laws in every country the game serves.

Again, nothing to do with cryptocurrency.

Here's the broad strokes. You'd pay $11 to join the game. $0.50 goes to the payment processor and $0.50 goes to us to pay for the server and our profit is there is any. Then you'd have $10 in game. It costs you $9 to build a building and $1.00 to get materials and run the building. Hopefully you can take in a revenue of $1.01 on that action. But most people won't. That $10 you put in the economy? Everyone's fighting for it and since you're new you have less experience and less size. What are the odds you picked the right building and the right product for the right cost and charged the right price? Pretty slim.

There is no standard advice and no beginners curve because we have no free money source with which to guarantee it. Most will come in and lose all their money very quickly, as novices do at the poker table. The few who put enough money in to get experience will reduce it all to a set of algorithms and then get furious at us any time the rules change. It all looks more and more like gambling and less and less like a fun game.

Really I think you're making an association that isn't warranted. Simunomics has digital currency. The world outside has digital currency. What if they freely traded back and forth? But Simunomics is far too complex in its rules to function as a gambling outlet. If you want to gamble on a game go make a version of Call of Duty where you buy lives and get paid per kill. It's basically the same thing and a much bigger market.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:54 am 

Joined: Aug 10, 2015
Posts: 46
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User avatarCrownX Enterprises
 
Amarsir wrote:
Ok let's be critical. What you want is like Online Poker, where everyone pays to sit down at a game. Except instead of building a hand of cards you build virtual stores where you try to predict the demand of virtual people for a virtual product.


So I mean, lets be fair. Cryptocurrencies, such as bitcoin, are not "online gambling", and they are not a zero sum game.

The idea of cryptocurrencies is simple - all money is fake anyway. Its fake in the sense that the value of the money is based on something completely arbitrary, like the words on US Dollars - "This note is legal tender, for all debts, public and private." In other words, this is worth something because an authority (the United States) says it is. Now, it quickly gets convoluted, because the United States does not actually have the be-all end-all say on things economic, so people get to charge what they want for stuff. But this is irrelevant - the money has value because someone of authority says it has value, and vendors fall in line.

Cryptocurrency just takes that arbitrariness and turns it into units of work, specifically cranking through hash functions. So now, the currency has value because you did something, even though that something is, in and of itself, of no value. But it does have a cost - computing power, electricity, etc. Once the currency exists in the marketplace, vendors choose to value it (or not value it) at some level, it gets traded for dollars and other currencies, and it starts to act more and more like regular currency. The difference is that there are rules guiding the currency - specifically, how much 'work' has to be done to get the next block. These rules give the currency value, in the same sense that the United States abstaining from printing 20 trillion dollars tomorrow allows the currency to retain value.

So, how does this fit into a game? I guess you could say the unit of work is manipulating a Simu citizen to buy your stuff. The value is bound in the idea that Simu citizens will buy a limited amount of things for a limited price. The devs would make money by providing services for in game cash, which would be transferable to other currencies (like bitcoin is) through people who care about this strange currency called Bucks :). The rub is that the game has to get exponentially harder as you grow, otherwise you are generating exponentially more real money, which would devalue the currency, and therefore cause inflation. Essentially, inflation in the game would just devalue the currency against existing currencies. This isn't a problem, it would just be true. It would probably cause people to not be willing to trade this money though.

The idea of linking Bucks to existing currencies is really not about 'gambling', or 'devs vs players', or the house, or any other gambling term. The only requirement is that people accept bucks for real life payment, and then you have a real life currency.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:25 am 
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Location: Climbing up the shoulders of giants
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User avatarAllmart
System Company
CrownX wrote:
So I mean, lets be fair. Cryptocurrencies, such as bitcoin, are not "online gambling", and they are not a zero sum game.

I didn't compare cryptocurrency to gambling. I compared it to the Euro and the Dollar. I'm saying a game where some people lose money and others gain it is gambling. The choice of currency is irrelevant to that description.

Quote:
So, how does this fit into a game? I guess you could say the unit of work is manipulating a Simu citizen to buy your stuff. The value is bound in the idea that Simu citizens will buy a limited amount of things for a limited price. The devs would make money by providing services for in game cash, which would be transferable to other currencies (like bitcoin is) through people who care about this strange currency called Bucks :). The rub is that the game has to get exponentially harder as you grow, otherwise you are generating exponentially more real money, which would devalue the currency, and therefore cause inflation. Essentially, inflation in the game would just devalue the currency against existing currencies. This isn't a problem, it would just be true. It would probably cause people to not be willing to trade this money though.

Oh I see. You want to replace the mining algorithm itself with something more gamelike. Well that's not an invalid idea. The catch is that hashing was chosen for a reason, because it's predictable in the average without being predictable in the specific and can be externally verified. Those are pretty tough restrictions to create a game around.

Regardless, the dynamic I described is still there: most people who start out aren't successful. If there's no real currency buy in and anyone can start trying to get Bucks simply in return for effort, it has to take great effort and/or fail the vast majority of the time.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:50 pm 

Joined: Mar 25, 2013
Posts: 1006
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User avatarHatuey Enterprise
 
Amarsir wrote:
CrownX wrote:
So I mean, lets be fair. Cryptocurrencies, such as bitcoin, are not "online gambling", and they are not a zero sum game.

I didn't compare cryptocurrency to gambling. I compared it to the Euro and the Dollar. I'm saying a game where some people lose money and others gain it is gambling. The choice of currency is irrelevant to that description.

Quote:
So, how does this fit into a game? I guess you could say the unit of work is manipulating a Simu citizen to buy your stuff. The value is bound in the idea that Simu citizens will buy a limited amount of things for a limited price. The devs would make money by providing services for in game cash, which would be transferable to other currencies (like bitcoin is) through people who care about this strange currency called Bucks :). The rub is that the game has to get exponentially harder as you grow, otherwise you are generating exponentially more real money, which would devalue the currency, and therefore cause inflation. Essentially, inflation in the game would just devalue the currency against existing currencies. This isn't a problem, it would just be true. It would probably cause people to not be willing to trade this money though.

Oh I see. You want to replace the mining algorithm itself with something more gamelike. Well that's not an invalid idea. The catch is that hashing was chosen for a reason, because it's predictable in the average without being predictable in the specific and can be externally verified. Those are pretty tough restrictions to create a game around.

Regardless, the dynamic I described is still there: most people who start out aren't successful. If there's no real currency buy in and anyone can start trying to get Bucks simply in return for effort, it has to take great effort and/or fail the vast majority of the time.


Crown just made me think of a different spin here. If Simunomics was like a pool website - effort could be counted towards the game. Hashes turn into bucks for example and the pool makes 2% of all blocks. Want revenue without hurting or charging more for the game while hitching it to a currency without crossing gambling laws? make a pool and reward accounts ingame based on their hashing stats. Let miners sell their bucks on the site for cryptocurrency to whoever wants to play the game and get more money.

You as the dev take heat off your back because now you're not directly linking the game to a digital currency but indirectly it feeds off of it.

This could be an extremely easy way to increase income to further develop and market the game while dabbling in some interesting projects related to cryptocurrencies or even bitcoin. (I'd do a crypto because mostly everyone has a video card that can hash away towards a game). A live hash counter can give people buck equivalents while they play to feed the pool) A browser game doesn't take away that much video processing power and while most people play it, that video card is idling almost all the time.

some coins do generate profit even for those of us who pay for electricity up to .12 per kw.

_________________
My prices: http://goo.gl/BGJjSJ
My 2 year gameplay achievements:
1- I was first to break the $10 through $180 trillion retained earning milestones.
2- I was first to break the 100m ft2 manufacturing milestone in 1 account, and now 150m ft2.
3- I founded The Network that dominated and stayed top TG in the game for 1 whole year. - and still is!
4- I was first to profit 55 trillion in 1 week from just 1 product.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:43 pm 

Joined: Mar 25, 2013
Posts: 1006
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User avatarHatuey Enterprise
 
Amarsir,

you still have a chance to be a first mover in this arena... dont lose to https://prospectors.io/

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0quEK ... p3TVU/view

You already have here a game 90% like what they have proposed. I found out about them after having posted here.

_________________
My prices: http://goo.gl/BGJjSJ
My 2 year gameplay achievements:
1- I was first to break the $10 through $180 trillion retained earning milestones.
2- I was first to break the 100m ft2 manufacturing milestone in 1 account, and now 150m ft2.
3- I founded The Network that dominated and stayed top TG in the game for 1 whole year. - and still is!
4- I was first to profit 55 trillion in 1 week from just 1 product.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:59 pm 

Joined: May 17, 2014
Posts: 33
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User avatarGlobal Trade S.A.
 
Something sounds strange to me, what is the link brtween cryptocurrency and videocards?

The way i read it the hardware (videocard) is essential in this case...

I like to know more about it.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:07 pm 

Joined: May 17, 2014
Posts: 33
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User avatarGlobal Trade S.A.
 
This have to be secured, i think fraude in this case is easy for people who dont know "howto" with the hardware, be careful...


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:59 am 

Joined: Mar 25, 2013
Posts: 1006
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User avatarHatuey Enterprise
 
in my original idea for simunomics i was proposing a whole new ecosystem (coin).

In the link I posted about the game that is just like simunomics but built into the blockchain as Amarsir had said it was really hard to implement there is no video card involvement. IT is just a game piggybacking Ethereum which is a platform for cryptocurrencies, daps, and databases. In that case it solves the issue Amarsir pointed out about blockchain storage, and implementation.

Something simunomics could definitely achieve with some manpower.

my initial idea included video card suggestion for mining, but it is not necessary as shown in the case of prospectors.io

Simu was here before prospectors, maybe adding blockchain tech to the game might spark that growth we never got earlier.

_________________
My prices: http://goo.gl/BGJjSJ
My 2 year gameplay achievements:
1- I was first to break the $10 through $180 trillion retained earning milestones.
2- I was first to break the 100m ft2 manufacturing milestone in 1 account, and now 150m ft2.
3- I founded The Network that dominated and stayed top TG in the game for 1 whole year. - and still is!
4- I was first to profit 55 trillion in 1 week from just 1 product.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:01 pm 

Joined: May 17, 2014
Posts: 33
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User avatarGlobal Trade S.A.
 
Hatuey wrote:
in my original idea for simunomics i was proposing a whole new ecosystem (coin).

In the link I posted about the game that is just like simunomics but built into the blockchain as Amarsir had said it was really hard to implement there is no video card involvement. IT is just a game piggybacking Ethereum which is a platform for cryptocurrencies, daps, and databases. In that case it solves the issue Amarsir pointed out about blockchain storage, and implementation.

Something simunomics could definitely achieve with some manpower.

my initial idea included video card suggestion for mining, but it is not necessary as shown in the case of prospectors.io

Simu was here before prospectors, maybe adding blockchain tech to the game might spark that growth we never got earlier.
Hardware of players should not be involved i am HARD against


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:05 pm 

Joined: May 17, 2014
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User avatarGlobal Trade S.A.
 
Our privacy must be protected


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