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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:28 am 

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User avatarJohn's Manufacturing
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This question is directed to the devs as players will not know the answers, Well my question is the following.

When will we have dominance awards for producers i think almarts competition is fair. ?

Can we have like a daily cashout from our factories so our market-share can be updated like the retailers ?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:27 am 
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User avatarLorrine Enterprises, IMU
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I think Allmart's presence can be higher. It is too easy to dominate in the electronics market, and I can dominate too easily in appliances as well with my second account. I want to get these awards out as soon as possible, though.

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Can we have like a daily cashout from our factories so our market-share can be updated like the retailers ?


This suggestion has been going around a lot. I only have one concern, which may just be mislead. I'm not entirely sure how retail store cash-outs affect dominance, but if a game-wide automatic "get products" occurred at midnight GMT to calculate dominance numbers, it can't just be based on the units received at that time. Suppose I am short on supplies and I can only produce for 8 hours, and all my factories produce for 8 hours, and then they start up again for 16 hours to complete the day. It has happened to me a couple times where I have ben short on glass so the factories that need glass only produce for a fraction of the day. Their is no high qa glass in the city, so I have to import it from Abalesk or Bellerive. It hopefully gets here in about half a day. When this happens, my daily production is split into two parts. I might produce 10k TVs in 8 hours, production stops, then it restarts an hour later when the glass comes, and I start producing 20k units for 15 hours. If the cash out/get products occurs in the middle of my 15 hour production, I want to make sure the stats know I make 30k daily, and not just pick up the 10k I had been producing currently when the "get products" happened.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:38 am 

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User avatarCDM Holdings
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Alex Lorrine wrote:
I'm not entirely sure how retail store cash-outs affect dominance


To my knowledge there is no effect on dominance from cash out of stores. Actual dominance calculations for retail sales of products are done as a daily average over the course of 1 week. This is why if you stop retailing and producing, say while doing large scale expansions for a few weeks, it will take about a week for your daily sales dominance to show what you actually are selling per day.

If the devs use this as the model for production dominance it probably won't hit you as hard as you think. Or at least we hope. :pray:

But the devs should add a "Cash out for production" in order for figures to be accurate and fair for everyone. If this is done i would think it would coinside with the daily cash out of stores.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:26 pm 

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User avatarAPCE Production
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To answer Alex's question - retail daily cash outs don't decide what your sales are for the day. They simply provide book ends for you sales.

Therefore if you hit the cash out button before, or if your sales end before the day ends, those count too. The daily cash out numbers are simply the last accepted numbers between the beginning and end bookend of a retailers day.

As far as the market being too easy to dominate in production, honestly, that is why I think there should be another category for production - game dominance. This would be the equivalent of the retailers triple dominance awards, in prestige.

It could be tabulated separately, therefore you can dominate your city, but also the game. This would allow two types of dominance awards for producers - single city and game wide. This would also eliminate the need for triple dominance awards, which would be...wonky to obtain as a producer.

The stats could be displayed by going to the sector, then perhaps the bottom graph for all pages could be the "game wide production" graph.

APCE

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:28 am 

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User avatarReal Value
 
Actually, as I think about it, product is not really as much of a city issue as is sales, and I think it might make sense to only have awards for production be game wide awards. However, that also might seem limiting to some producers, as they could easily qualify in a small city without much competition for a city production award, but qualifying for a game-wide total production dominance award might be harder to do.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:50 pm 
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User avatarAllmart
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I'd be fine with doing it game-wide, but I do worry that producers would feel they have fewer rewards than sellers.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:38 pm 

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User avatarReal Value
 
Amarsir wrote:
I'd be fine with doing it game-wide, but I do worry that producers would feel they have fewer rewards than sellers.


Yeah, that worries me as well. I think one way to deal with that would be to have city awards for dominance of production of a city, but then not double or triple awards, but only game-wide awards, with possibly even more points due to FOUR city dominance and no double city awards. I don't think it matters as much if you dominate production in two cities where there is not much competition, but don't have the majority of production game wide. On the production side, I think it is important to have the big point awards go to someone who truly is the dominant producer of a specific product in the game, regardless of whether that production is being done in one city or in multiple cities.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:32 pm 

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Amarsir wrote:
I'd be fine with doing it game-wide, but I do worry that producers would feel they have fewer rewards than sellers.


In my opinion, we should be able to earn as much awards as retailers. There are literally hundreds of awards for retailers, and by limiting the producer awards the progress is limited, and the game will still be biased toward retailers, and even more so because IMU Prices have been significantly reduced. Economy 0, +1, +2, and +3 are all better for retailers. There are 7 possible economies and retailers take advantage of 4/7 of them, get much more awards than producers, and are much more known throughout the game than producers. Once I got into the game I knew the names Real Value, APCE Production, Sunshine Corporation, Habars, all by heart. Manufactura, fortress, Metatron, all companies I didn't quite know. The fame has always bee directed toward retailers, why not turn in the producer direction and make it more appealing to be a producer? I have always dreamed of making an impact on this game and being wide-known all over but this is harder because I'm a producer. For some reason, retailers get much more fame in Simunomics than producers.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:45 pm 

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User avatarcontroling Inc.
 
maybe adding rewards for producers. since it is not that great to have city exclusive awards for producers.
maybe High QA award for a certain product?
or other ideas for awards


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:51 pm 

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User avatarReal Value
 
WOW Industries wrote:
Once I got into the game I knew the names Real Value, APCE Production, Sunshine Corporation, Habars, all by heart. Manufactura, fortress, Metatron, all companies I didn't quite know. The fame has always been directed toward retailers, why not turn in the producer direction and make it more appealing to be a producer? I have always dreamed of making an impact on this game and being wide-known all over but this is harder because I'm a producer. For some reason, retailers get much more fame in Simunomics than producers.


First, you put Metatron in the producer category, and he is one of the largest retailers in the game. You don't know him because he is quiet, but he is definitely a retailer and has some of the largest stores in the entire game. You also left Megamart and VIP Trader and Barabosa and WeRToys and Reynolds off of your list of players you know, even though they are some of the largest retailers in the game.

Second, you get to know companies because they talk with you or do business with you, and so GPH is almost a household name known by most players in the game, and so is SONO, because they make the raw materials that other players buy, so you get to know them if you are using raw materials. You also know retailers who might buy your products, but I can assure you that I spend as much or more time talking to producers who supply me with products as I do with other retailers, and most of my conversations with Sunshine are in regard to his role with his second company as a producer of some of the finest quality intermediate goods in the game. I buy from him to use to supply other companies who make products for me. I resell these products at the same price as I pay for them, and often even at lower prices as quality decays some before they get invoiced out, but I buy them to make sure I am able to keep my own suppliers provided with high QA products. I also buy from other producers of intermediary goods for much the same reason.

Finally, if retailing is so attractive to you, why not sell off factories and invest in building stores? No one is forcing you to be a manufacturer. This was a choice you made, and you can now choose to rethink that choice and sell factories and buy stores if you want to do so. Stores will cost a lot more to buy or build per sq ft than factories, so you will be a smaller company than you are able to be as a producer, but you might make more money being a smaller retailer instead of being a larger producer. If you want to make a switch, you can talk to me and I'll try to arrange some form of swap for you. Stores will be much, much cheaper in Canjara than in other cities right now, due to the stronger economy in the other cities, so Canjara might be the best place to start as a new retailer, whether you are buying stores or building new stores. Buying or building in Abalesk or Bellerive would be quite expensive to do right now.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:27 pm 

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User avatarWOW INDUSTRIES
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  Company
1 142,973,330 Boston IMU-Unknown (To me)
2 50,949,930 Karma Corp.-Retailer
3 37,442,500 Global Production House-Producer
4 30,447,300 MegaMart-Retailer
5 28,591,900 vip trader-Retailer
6 26,100,000 Habars-Retailer
7 24,510,500 APCE Production -Retailer
8 24,020,400 IMU Research Park-Retailer
9 20,773,170 Vaculus-Retailer
10 20,046,300 Real Value-Retailer

Just count and you will find that obviously the largest and most accomplished companies in this game are retailers, is it not? I only stick to manufacturing because I have hope for the production awards, I have been manufacturing since I made the company, and the production time limits are larger. The rest pretty much goes all to the retailers.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:21 pm 

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WOW Industries wrote:
  Company
1 142,973,330 Boston IMU-Unknown (To me) [Producer - makes tools and water and other raw materials]
2 50,949,930 Karma Corp.-Retailer [Most of score comes from Mines, so producer as well as retailer]
3 37,442,500 Global Production House-Producer
4 30,447,300 MegaMart-Retailer [100% stores]
5 28,591,900 vip trader-Retailer [was producer until about four to five months ago, when he switched to retailing]
6 26,100,000 Habars-Retailer [100% stores]
7 24,510,500 APCE Production -Retailer [100% stores]
8 24,020,400 IMU Research Park-Retailer [was producer until about a month ago, when he bought a lot of stores from me and others and sold all of his factories and research centers]
9 20,773,170 Vaculus-Retailer [mixed mode producer and retailer - one of the most vertically integrated players in the entire game]
10 20,046,300 Real Value-Retailer [100% stores]

Just count and you will find that obviously the largest and most accomplished companies in this game are retailers, is it not? I only stick to manufacturing because I have hope for the production awards, I have been manufacturing since I made the company, and the production time limits are larger. The rest pretty much goes all to the retailers.


I started the game as a producer. I later switched to retailing, partly because someone else in the game wanted to sell their stores because they could not effectively supply them. I swapped my factories for his stores at a fair trade rate. Karma also started as a producer, focusing on construction supplies for a long time in his business. Boston IMU has been a farmer and raw materials producer for a long time. GPH has always been a production company. VIP Trader used to be IMU Trader and before that was Trader Joes, and was a producer for a long time in the game, as well as one of my largest building expansions services providers for a long time. He sold all his factories and switched to retailing. Research Park is similar to VIP Trader, in that he started out in the production and research side of the business, and only recently has become a large retailer. I think up until a few weeks ago, he was primarily a producer. Vaculus is definitely a retailer, but he also is a producer, and has some of the largest R&D centers and factories in the game. Too call him a pure retailer is to far underestimate the effectiveness of his highly focused and totally vertically integrated business operation. Vaculus is not at all like other retailers in the game - Vaculus is unique and deserves a category and classification all of his own.

Therefore, as pure retailers without factories today, who have been retailers for more than a few months, you are only left with Real Value, Habars, APCE, and Megamart. Four of the top ten being pure retailers. Two of the top three players are definitely producers with no stores at all, and two of the top 10 are mixed mode retailing and production (Karma and Vaculus). Two of the top ten were producers until fairly recently, when they decided to make a switch from the production side of the business to becoming pure retailers. They definitely did not start out as retailers, so they have made EXACTLY the type of change that I have recommended that you consider making.

If you want to sell your cell phones and focus on that one product, why not follow the example of the number nine player in the game ranked by score, Vaculus, and build (or buy) stores to sell your own phones. Keep both the producer and the retailer awards and become the largest producer and seller of cell phones in the game. Oversupply is not an issue if you are pushing your own phones through your own stores. Vaculus has oversupplied the silverware market in Canjara since long before I started to play the game, and he has made a lot of money following this very focused strategy. Watch what he does and learn and apply this to your own company if you want to have a highly focused, one product strategy for your business.

Another player who is both producer and retailer, and who has the highest prestige in the game, is Down Under. You don't deal with him because he does not need to buy your products. He mostly makes his own. He has done very well in the game, in spite of having a very busy work schedule and family commitments in real life that limit the time that he can devote to the game.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:30 pm 

Joined: Oct 28, 2009
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User avatarAPCE Production
Automotive Genius
WOW Industries wrote:
  Company
1 142,973,330 Boston IMU-Unknown (To me)
2 50,949,930 Karma Corp.-Retailer
3 37,442,500 Global Production House-Producer
4 30,447,300 MegaMart-Retailer
5 28,591,900 vip trader-Retailer
6 26,100,000 Habars-Retailer
7 24,510,500 APCE Production -Retailer
8 24,020,400 IMU Research Park-Retailer
9 20,773,170 Vaculus-Retailer
10 20,046,300 Real Value-Retailer

Just count and you will find that obviously the largest and most accomplished companies in this game are retailers, is it not? I only stick to manufacturing because I have hope for the production awards, I have been manufacturing since I made the company, and the production time limits are larger. The rest pretty much goes all to the retailers.


You really have some facts confused here. Boston is a producer, karma is split between both, IMU research park started with R&D centers, moved to production, and is only just entering retail, therefore most of the wealth of that company can be attributed to manufacturing. Vaculus has historically done both production and retail on some level, and currently dominates ceramics production, at least, in Canjara.

Also, keep in mind that most of the top rankings are based fairly significantly on older systems that used to be in place. Most of my wealth was made prior to IMU, prior to manufacturers taking a stand and getting prices that frankly yield significantly higher ROIs for manufacturers than for retailers. Retailers may dominate awards, but I can show you over and over again that a manufacturer dedicated to the quality of their products will consistently smash a retailer in terms of ROI, both with equal assets and with equal sized buildings, but different assets. And that includes the ridiculous price of R&D centers, which significantly raises assets, therefore lowers ROI, even though much of the highest quality research is done by research companies and sold to huge manufacturers.

Also, for reasons that you already mentioned, such as you don't want to have to be online all the time, tend to make retailers bigger. This is because retailing requires a more significant dedication to the game - retailers, I dare say, tend to buy more tickets from the system, they tend to be online more often, they tend to be far more active. This is because they must maintain far more relationships with producers in order to maintain adequate supply, as well as relationships with other retailers which come in handy when, say, trying to manipulate a city economy to achieve profitability. If retailers did not get on all the time, they would truly suffer in terms of ROI, compared to manufacturers who generally don't have to be on as much. This level of activity allows retailers to make better deals, and therefore make more money, causing their scores to be higher.

Positive economies are positive for retailers, negative economies are positive for manufacturers. 0 is equal for everyone. Retailers don't like 0 economies either. Don't try to say that a 0 economy favors retailers, it really does not. I actually prefer to expand through 0 economy, because the profitability isn't there in stores.

The only imbalance at this point between manufacturers and retailers is the fact that manufacturers don't get an adequate amount of prestige. If a manufacturer wanted to change that, they could simply brand lock their products. Most manufacturers choose not to do this, because it makes their products less salable. While this is true, it would make retailers products less salable with a brand lock too, it isn't unfair. In fact, if manufacturers would start demanding to brand lock their goods, retailers couldn't do anything about it.

Adding production awards is a step that will allow both retail and manufacturing to be even in all aspects. There is no question. Perhaps the awards will need to be added differently, because manufacturing and retailing are not the same. In my opinion, there should be two types of awards for production. There should be a city award, and a game wide award, which is worth 4x the points of the city award. I think that simplicity would make it far better for producers. You simply can't have single, double, triple, quad, and game wide dominance awards, it would make it too imbalanced, but I think just having the game wide award would make it too difficult to achieve. I think the right balance is awards for one city, or awards for the entire game.

PS. I also started as a producer.

APCE

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:46 pm 

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User avatarcontroling Inc.
 
i have done the same a Vaculus, so i am currently half retailer half producer.
retailers no longer have the edge in the game, as i find i could make much more at just selling my clothing then selling IMU prices products in my stores.
though i sell my own products and my own producers follow my own pricing since IMU prices just are not profitable even close to the levels on producing the products i am in.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:08 pm 

Joined: Dec 16, 2011
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User avatarWOW INDUSTRIES
Doing Your Bidding: 1st Place
APCE Production wrote:
WOW Industries wrote:
Company
1 142,973,330 Boston IMU-Unknown (To me)
2 50,949,930 Karma Corp.-Retailer
3 37,442,500 Global Production House-Producer
4 30,447,300 MegaMart-Retailer
5 28,591,900 vip trader-Retailer
6 26,100,000 Habars-Retailer
7 24,510,500 APCE Production -Retailer
8 24,020,400 IMU Research Park-Retailer
9 20,773,170 Vaculus-Retailer
10 20,046,300 Real Value-Retailer

Just count and you will find that obviously the largest and most accomplished companies in this game are retailers, is it not? I only stick to manufacturing because I have hope for the production awards, I have been manufacturing since I made the company, and the production time limits are larger. The rest pretty much goes all to the retailers.


You really have some facts confused here. Boston is a producer, karma is split between both, IMU research park started with R&D centers, moved to production, and is only just entering retail, therefore most of the wealth of that company can be attributed to manufacturing. Vaculus has historically done both production and retail on some level, and currently dominates ceramics production, at least, in Canjara.

Also, keep in mind that most of the top rankings are based fairly significantly on older systems that used to be in place. Most of my wealth was made prior to IMU, prior to manufacturers taking a stand and getting prices that frankly yield significantly higher ROIs for manufacturers than for retailers. Retailers may dominate awards, but I can show you over and over again that a manufacturer dedicated to the quality of their products will consistently smash a retailer in terms of ROI, both with equal assets and with equal sized buildings, but different assets. And that includes the ridiculous price of R&D centers, which significantly raises assets, therefore lowers ROI, even though much of the highest quality research is done by research companies and sold to huge manufacturers.

Also, for reasons that you already mentioned, such as you don't want to have to be online all the time, tend to make retailers bigger. This is because retailing requires a more significant dedication to the game - retailers, I dare say, tend to buy more tickets from the system, they tend to be online more often, they tend to be far more active. This is because they must maintain far more relationships with producers in order to maintain adequate supply, as well as relationships with other retailers which come in handy when, say, trying to manipulate a city economy to achieve profitability. If retailers did not get on all the time, they would truly suffer in terms of ROI, compared to manufacturers who generally don't have to be on as much. This level of activity allows retailers to make better deals, and therefore make more money, causing their scores to be higher.

Positive economies are positive for retailers, negative economies are positive for manufacturers. 0 is equal for everyone. Retailers don't like 0 economies either. Don't try to say that a 0 economy favors retailers, it really does not. I actually prefer to expand through 0 economy, because the profitability isn't there in stores.

The only imbalance at this point between manufacturers and retailers is the fact that manufacturers don't get an adequate amount of prestige. If a manufacturer wanted to change that, they could simply brand lock their products. Most manufacturers choose not to do this, because it makes their products less salable. While this is true, it would make retailers products less salable with a brand lock too, it isn't unfair. In fact, if manufacturers would start demanding to brand lock their goods, retailers couldn't do anything about it.

Adding production awards is a step that will allow both retail and manufacturing to be even in all aspects. There is no question. Perhaps the awards will need to be added differently, because manufacturing and retailing are not the same. In my opinion, there should be two types of awards for production. There should be a city award, and a game wide award, which is worth 4x the points of the city award. I think that simplicity would make it far better for producers. You simply can't have single, double, triple, quad, and game wide dominance awards, it would make it too imbalanced, but I think just having the game wide award would make it too difficult to achieve. I think the right balance is awards for one city, or awards for the entire game.

PS. I also started as a producer.

APCE


Just a note, I didn't say I didn't want to be online all the time, I just hate setting the stores again and again. It's much easier to reset your factories at say every 2-3 weeks. I'm not really interested in transferring properties to all cities because that would divide my production into lower and lower amounts per city, but I like the idea of a city award.

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