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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:57 pm 

Joined: Mar 10, 2015
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Southern Manufacturing
Corban industries wrote:
Btw i just wanted to mention that everyone needs to come down a bit and step back. Your all getting cheaper inputs and that will lower your production costs. It's going to take a few months for users to move old inventories and burn thru the old pricing.

With in 6 months production prices will normalize and everyone will be making profits. Tickets will be coming down in price also.

Retail earnings will also be coming down with the future updates that will rain them in from saturating the markets and over pricing retailed goods.

All in all we knew this was coming and need as CEOs of our companies to best profit from this situation. I for one am not leaving manufacturing business but am expanding in it right now. I see a bright new future that has new and different opportunities.

And if you had not guessed. Imu prices will be updating.

-corban industries
IMU Founder


Long term, I agree this update will be beneficial. My problem is exactly what you mentioned. Six months before production prices level out. That is ridiculous, especially while over the next 6 months retailers will be soaking up even more profits from the lower cost of goods.

I am sure this update was in good faith. But as someone else mentioned it should have started at the top and trickled down. Limiting a manufacturers profit will not stop the inflation caused by retailers, which is what I am assuming this is trying to achieve ultimately.

Luckily for me I been sporting a lean manufacturing process for the last 3 months. So I will be able to order new inputs at the cheaper cost sooner and get my profit margins somewhat back to normal. But, I will just have to sit back and watch the retailers rack in even bigger profits.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:37 am 
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Corban industries wrote:
the only thing i think that should be changed. is that we should have a should not be using a linear sales average in our formula. since rl and in the game to get higher q things get a lot harder. we should be using a exponential trendline for sales. and from that have a standard deviation off of the average mean to set our prices.

this would give you a control for outliers but also not break the system when we get very large. at what rate that trendline grows is a whole different story based off the costs.

though linear has its own inherit problems also.

That's an idea I don't think we'd considered. There are numerous issues but I'll take it under advisement.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:39 am 
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If there's one thing people hate to hear after a controversial decision, it's for the guy who made that decision to say "I was more right than I thought." I know that. Those guys are jerks.

That said, brace yourself. :wink:

I've been going over people's cases and why they "can't make money at these prices", and I've seen some interesting things. And, yes, it does reinforce my statement that easy money from big players has warped the game so much that many players have no idea how they should (or can) make a profit.

One such person was paying β175,000 per employee per day. That got him an extra 40% in production rate, sure. But it raised his costs by a factor of 10. With a minor adjustment (and I didn't optimize) he can change that farm from β140 million loss per day to β100 million profit. And isn't that what a cool CEO experience should be? Making high level changes to swing from loss to profit? I think that's a lot more interesting than running the same prices forever.

Others have expressed shock not that they'd lose money, but wouldn't earn as much. Maybe we should have prepared people more for that, but then ... how long have we talked about the problem of too much easy money in the economy?

Those of you who are thinking the grass is greener in retail ... wait please. It's going to take at least a week before retailers really go "wait a minute ..." I think in hindsight I would have done just the retail changes first so there was more downward pressure on them to cut costs. But it felt fair to do both sides at the same time.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:03 am 
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User avatarAindala Holdings
Bottled Water Genius
Amarsir wrote:
Those of you who are thinking the grass is greener in retail ... wait please. It's going to take at least a week before retailers really go "wait a minute ..." I think in hindsight I would have done just the retail changes first so there was more downward pressure on them to cut costs.

:smile:

Quote:
04:42:51 AM March 12, 2015 A number of seriously overpriced market listings have been returned to their owners.
02:05:22 AM March 12, 2015 The impact of average prices on retail sales is being reduced (especially at high values).
09:23:38 PM March 11, 2015 Market listings older than 1 year have been returned to their owners.
09:23:25 PM March 11, 2015 Destination Real Estate, SSC has put Tier 1 Build Kits on the market. (At an outrageous price. Don't buy them.)

This helps things smooth along more quickly.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:40 am 

Joined: Jan 6, 2013
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User avatarplaytosor
 
I'll keep it short...

On the whole I like the changes as they will enforce sanity back to the game. However a few points :

- add a max button for the volume (or make max the default when selling to the market). I put a lot of stuff in the market and the extra mouse dragging is just aggravating
- let us define a default market or invoice in the option, saving us a click on most sales.
- I don't like hard limits as they restrict too much our freedom. I pretty much would have preferred a system where prices out of the acceptable range would get an increasingly high tax. (if say max acceptable price is 100 and you sell at 200 you get an additionaly taxe on (200 - 100) of, say, 30%. at 300 you get taxed at 45% of ( 300 - 100) and so on -- numbers are just illustrative here ; I have no idea what actual values would be good)) :
-> this would help remove some money from the system
-> this still would discourage round trips and other kind of cheating/abuse as too much money would be lost in the process
-> this would still allow to supply the market when the usual price boosting dictator would empty the supplies to get a monopoly on its products (AFAIK this is happening less now but it was systematic a year ago. The only way to counter this - and allow the market to function - is to set your products at a higher than usual price)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:22 pm 

Joined: Dec 11, 2013
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Abbots
This is my bit. Video Game Systems straight from factory, with salaries at 20k and pretty good deals on the inputs. Yet still, it doesn't allow me to sell above my manufacturing cost. And that's QA 115.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:58 pm 

Joined: Feb 27, 2011
Posts: 547
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User avatarGold Star Assets
Corporate Yacht (40 ft)
Amarsir wrote:
If there's one thing people hate to hear after a controversial decision, it's for the guy who made that decision to say "I was more right than I thought." I know that. Those guys are jerks.

That said, brace yourself. :wink:

I've been going over people's cases and why they "can't make money at these prices", and I've seen some interesting things. And, yes, it does reinforce my statement that easy money from big players has warped the game so much that many players have no idea how they should (or can) make a profit.


This is true. My example: Ext. Tools I could produce 170QA+ tools for $13,000 to $25,000 per unit depending on steel costs and salary. With research being a large expense, selling those 170QA tools at around $50,000 per unit is reasonable and economical for use in mines. However, if millions of higher (225QA) Tools are being sold for $10,000-$15,000 per unit thru invoice, that "undermines" my products marketability. Likewise, if my or any other high QA tools get used to move cash (sold for $150,000 per unit) this sabotages potential profit, demand and usefulness. So my tools collect rust & dust on the market more than they should.


Amarsir wrote:
Others have expressed shock not that they'd lose money, but wouldn't earn as much. Maybe we should have prepared people more for that, but then ... how long have we talked about the problem of too much easy money in the economy?


The fact that you could lose money rather than earn is what makes the game challenging. Pencil and paper... a few ideas and changes to your game and losses can be turned around. In RL most profit margins are fairly slim.


Amarsir wrote:
Those of you who are thinking the grass is greener in retail ... wait please. It's going to take at least a week before retailers really go "wait a minute ..." I think in hindsight I would have done just the retail changes first so there was more downward pressure on them to cut costs. But it felt fair to do both sides at the same time.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:58 pm 

Joined: May 18, 2014
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User avatarBE Corporation
 
Is it possible to see recent market and invoice sales graph of a product if I don t have this product in wh?
I need it : if I want to change a business I should study others business and knowing price range is of primary importance!

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:29 pm 

Joined: Sep 2, 2014
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User avatarKojiOrphen Sake
Retailer
KojiOrphen wrote:
Are the "Recent Market and Invoice Sales" charts being updated?

I haven't seen my sales posted into the chart for Abalesk and I can't invoice for the maximum price given.

The maximum price is 104,940.30 and my cost is currently 320k+. (They were bought directly from the manufacturer.)

It's the same way for all of my toys in both Abalesk and Bellerive.

Thanks,
Koji


I still don't see a response to my problem. Am I being hung out to dry?

Koji

PS: I just tried to sell them back to who I bought them from. The max is 104,339.51! I can't even return them and we're both Platinum!


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 9:06 am 

Joined: Dec 14, 2014
Posts: 33
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User avatarSoap & Water
Farmer
KojiOrphen wrote:
KojiOrphen wrote:
Are the "Recent Market and Invoice Sales" charts being updated?

I haven't seen my sales posted into the chart for Abalesk and I can't invoice for the maximum price given.

The maximum price is 104,940.30 and my cost is currently 320k+. (They were bought directly from the manufacturer.)

It's the same way for all of my toys in both Abalesk and Bellerive.

Thanks,
Koji


I still don't see a response to my problem. Am I being hung out to dry?

Koji


AGREE - No Patch seen - The following need "Repairs"

1) Branding cost not added correctly when reselling.
2) Pricespread - to many products are "hung out to dry" where productioncost is higher than the possible invoice price - also noticed if you want to get more even pricing over the different cities why then have each city there own price setting.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:31 pm 

Joined: Jul 30, 2013
Posts: 608
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User avatarRonak Holdings I
 
johans75 wrote:
KojiOrphen wrote:
KojiOrphen wrote:
Are the "Recent Market and Invoice Sales" charts being updated?

I haven't seen my sales posted into the chart for Abalesk and I can't invoice for the maximum price given.

The maximum price is 104,940.30 and my cost is currently 320k+. (They were bought directly from the manufacturer.)

It's the same way for all of my toys in both Abalesk and Bellerive.

Thanks,
Koji


I still don't see a response to my problem. Am I being hung out to dry?

Koji


AGREE - No Patch seen - The following need "Repairs"

1) Branding cost not added correctly when reselling.
2) Pricespread - to many products are "hung out to dry" where productioncost is higher than the possible invoice price - also noticed if you want to get more even pricing over the different cities why then have each city there own price setting.



Soap & Water, one of the primary reasons, i am not playing anymore this game. I will only return until playing it makes some sense to me. Limiting businesses isn't a way to control inflation or either promote it. Competitiveness is the "Golden Rule".


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:51 pm 
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Joined: Jan 19, 2011
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User avatarAindala Holdings
Bottled Water Genius
Let me call the attention to Plastic.

My warehouse costs are of 342 :beta: . Quality is 0. The maximum I can sell is 391 :beta: in invoice.

It's even more ridiculous for the next batch of Plastic. Since I was forced to buy electricity at 4 :beta: and each Plastic takes 30 units of them, the cost raises to 431 :beta: , yet since electricity only accounts for 5% of the quality my extra cost allows me to sell for only 437 :beta: by invoice.


I don't know what the problem is - maybe it's the fact plastic contributes a lot to cost but very little to QA?

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:15 pm 

Joined: Mar 11, 2015
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User avatarSpaz International
Triple Furniture Expert
Why is electricity so expensive? I for one think its not. I just wish I could sell it the citizens.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:49 pm 
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User avatarAindala Holdings
Bottled Water Genius
tspaz78 wrote:
Why is electricity so expensive? I for one think its not. I just wish I could sell it the citizens.

I don't know if it's expensive or not, I only know it's expensive based on my previous stock - 0.35 :beta: (which produced the cost of 342 :beta: per unit of plastic).

Actually a power company business would be nice ;), removing electricity as a requirement for all products and instead allowing people to contract with a power company for their electricity needs (and certain factories would consume more than others, and factories would consume more overall than stores, which would consume more overall than farms).

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 5:15 am 
Developer

Joined: Feb 8, 2008
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User avatarAllmart
System Company
KojiOrphen wrote:
Are the "Recent Market and Invoice Sales" charts being updated?

I haven't seen my sales posted into the chart for Abalesk and I can't invoice for the maximum price given.

Good catch, we were accidentally pulling market trades where we meant to pull invoice ones, meaning the market sales were sold twice and invoices not at all. I just fixed it so you should see considerably more trades now.

However, the chart still excludes outliers which it sounds like yours was.

KojiOrphen wrote:

The maximum price is 104,940.30 and my cost is currently 320k+. (They were bought directly from the manufacturer.)

It's the same way for all of my toys in both Abalesk and Bellerive.

PS: I just tried to sell them back to who I bought them from. The max is 104,339.51! I can't even return them and we're both Platinum!

Yes, we took out the "round trip at the same price" rule specifically because you didn't like it.

You didn't say which product so it's pretty hard for me to look up but I'll assume you mean your Video Game System. Customers expect to pay around β30,000 a day in stores for basic quality. Yours are QA 100 which means 320% percent more. That's β126,000. Let's say brand, your store factors, the competition, the economy, and everything else line up so well that customers will pay double their expected price. That's about β250k. Retail.

How would someone who paid β320,000 wholesale ever make a profit in that environment? I think you might need to take a loss on that inventory and tell your supplier to get his costs down to β50,000.

(Now I know that's not at all what you want to hear. But taking a loss on inventory and pushing your supplier to lower his costs: that sounds like business management to me.)


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